Tiny Surrenders: Losing Talent in the 4E Community
Last week, I was greatly dismayed to find out that the game designers over on the At-Will.com site have thrown in the proverbial towel. Quinn Murphy and Ryven Cedrylle really pushed at the borders of the 4E system, and found new ways to expand those borders into new, rich territories of gameplay, introducing unique ways of looking at skills and skill challenges, the Tragic Imprint for making cursed but still usable magic items, and (my personal favorite) Worldbreaker monsters to make combat encounters a climactic event rather than just a beat-down on a solo critter.
But yet these bright designers have decided not to offer their considerable talents to the D&D 4E community anymore, citing reasons which surprisingly pointed toward some members of the very community that benefitted from their hard work and creativity:
From the final blog post entitled All Done by Quinn:
I took a break to see if I wanted to do this anymore, and I just don’t want to come back to it. I’ve worked hard putting up content, and have had to deal with so much treachery, rudeness, apathy, entitlement, and venom that it is no longer worth it to be involved in the community. The bad for me personally has far outweighed the good. When I started to hate game design, I knew something was wrong. I have transitioned away from doing 4e design and am now working on different projects.
And not to mention the current state of 3rd Party Publishing under the GSL:
For those who have supported the Worldbreakers, you are so awesome and so patient! I am working on finishing this project for you (I’m no longer going to “sell” it, as there is no incentive to sell 4e 3PP products). I am really sorry to get tripped up like this, but your support has been awesome and I do intend to honor it. This will be my last 4e project.
It’s rather disturbing to hear a game designer feel that there is no more incentive to sell his hard work, and that he should simply give his work away because the community is so unreceptive to buying it. But it is even worse to consider that game designers are packing up shop because of some of their fellow gamers out there in the community being intentionally hurtful!
GSL’s Built-In Recession
Quinn and Ryven are not the first 4E 3PP (3rd Party Publishers) to decide that operating under the GSL is simply not viable, and sadly, they will not be the last. Talented writers like Aeryn Rudell (Blackdirge Publishing) and Todd Crapper (Combat Advantage webzine) are just two examples of game designers who found that publishing D&D 4E material under the GSL was simply not a winning proposition.
Personally, I lay a lot of the blame for this squarely on how restrictive 4E’s GSL is compared to its predecessor, 3rd Edition/d20’s OGL. It’s simply a much more restrictive set of publishing rules, and has not had its language updated since it was written to include any of the rules changes brought on by the Essentials line of products, including the Rules Compendium. Not to mention the fact that the GSL restricts 3PP computer apps, specifically ones which pertain to character building, which pretty much means that DDI’s Character Builder is the only option to create a character, short of hand-writing a sheet yourself. And this essentially cut out D&D 4E players from considering 3PP character design elements, such as new classes, powers, magic items, or feats, as viable products on the market.
So the only way a 3PP is likely to ever see their player-character designs available and actually used by the D&D community is to submit them to WotC and hope they get developed in a Dragon Magazine article as DDI content!
That left Dungeon Master assistance materials as the only real option for 3PP game designers, such as new monsters, adventure modules, and campaign settings, to offer the gaming community. It doesn’t take rocket science to realize that, on average, only 1 in 6 gamers out there is a DM who is providing the sessions for around 5 players, allowing GSL publishers access to only 16% of the 4E market. Needless to say, that’s a pretty miniscule piece of the gaming community to try and sell your 3PP products to.
For my own part, I’ve given up producing 3PP products for 4E anymore, as it simply doesn’t make sense to do so, given the time and effort it takes to bring even a PDF of an adventure module to the virtual storefront. I’ll still continue to write reviews, and offer some 4E content on occasion, as well as still write blogs regarding the 4E community events like GenCon and other stuff like that. But as far as creating and marketing 4E products under the GSL, it simply makes no real sense.
Honestly, I’ve already been working on another gaming design project that has nothing to do with D&D, 4E, or even the fantasy genre. And once I’m done with my NaNoWriMo project (National Novel Writing Month ) – I just surpassed 8000 words last night – I’ll be back working on my gaming project with utter abandon.
The Impolite Ecology of Internet Trolls
In reference to Quinn’s main reason for abandoning the At-Will ship, the “much treachery, rudeness, apathy, entitlement, and venom” he has felt from the community, I can only tend to agree with him. I’m not sure if it is the drive of some gamers in our D&D community to “win” at all cost, or that the anonymity of internet discourse allows anti-social behavior to surface with greater ease, but there are some damned impolite folks out there amongst our fellow 4E gamers.
Personally, I know it’s only a small but noisy minority of gamers out there who feel it necessary to make snide and snarky comment on blogs and internet forums, but it never fails to irritate me all the same. I don’t mind if someone disagrees with my assertions, or with my point of view regarding D&D 4E, but it’s one thing to disagree with me and quite another to try and win the argument through personal attacks and rude comments. Not to mention my personal pet peeve about having one’s assertions twisted out of true and exaggerated, simply to allow them to be more readily torn down –I really hate that argumentative style!
Now I realize that my stance on certain WotC 4E design practices (i.e. Essentials), as well as my opinions put forth in numerous product review blogs, can raise the ire in some 4E fans who feel their favorite game is under attack. But I still don’t see a need for making a disagreement over opinions about games being instantly turned into a personal grudge match, where only one gamer can be the victor, and only when the other gamer lies, metaphorically, cut to ribbons at his feet.
For example, I recently was burned in effigy over my less-than-glowing review of the Neverwinter Fascebook App by Atari on the EN World site. I still stand by my assertion that the game would have been more fun for me if they had kept the powers and classes authentic, rather than creating their own bizarre interpretation of D&D 4E. But because of my personal opinion on this topic, I literally had a couple commenters decrying my ability to write ANY game review, simply because my opinion did not agree with their own.
Seriously now, is calling into question my game reviewing talents, after writing hundreds of them for over two years now, really reasonable just because I gave one product a low review score?
I could cite other examples both from EN World Reviews as well as my own Neuroglyph Games blog site, but really there is little point. It happens everywhere, to lots of bloggers and publishers, all across our D&D 4E gaming community. And it’s not some plot hatched by 3.5 grognards to sow dissention in the ranks, but simply that a small group of our fellow gaming community can’t make a polite and logical argument without pulling in every fallacy known to man – and a few that I’m sure that have only come into existence since the internet became part of all our lives.
The real tragedy is when that small segment of the 4E community ruins the enjoyment experience for the rest of us, by driving out talented game designers who spent hours working on their ideas, and then more time writing them up as blogs for their fellow gamers for free! It takes time to research and write a blog on a new game concept, monster design, or product review – hours of time, in fact. And despite it being offered to the D&D community free-of-charge, there are still those who can’t resist taking a metaphoric dump in the comment section, disparaging hours of hard work in a few minutes of rude response.
I guess there are some who would say that we as game designers and bloggers just need to grow a thicker skin, and tough it out, despite the snarky comments and rudeness. But frankly, I’d rather see the larger percent, what is probably the 99% of the D&D internet community out there, stand up for your favorite blogger or publisher, and smack down the angry minority in a show of solidarity by posting your own comments. Otherwise, we may see more game design talent walk away from this D&D community, losing great ideas to other game systems.
So until next blog… I wish you Happy Gaming!
About The Author
I don’t think it’s fair at all to dump all this on the 4e fandom. The negativity towards 4e has certainly poisoned the community, and it’s pretty clear the 4e community isn’t half what it would have been without the backlash that has dominated so many discussions and forums for so long.
How do you expect people to act after years of snide comments and flame-wars? It’s made people far more negative, far less enthusiastic about the game, and generally made it a lot harder for people producing content to find an audience.
Way back when I used to write 4e material all the time on my blog, but for all the reasons Quinn listed and you go into I too decided to stop bothering with 4e and do my own thing. And frankly the thing is that 4e culture as a whole just has no room for 3PP stuff. When you actually ask most 4e gamers they’ve probably never bought, tried, or even heard of most 3PP stuff. They will also probably tell you that they wouldn’t care if 4e 3PP content just up and ceased to exist. Only WOTC can make stuff for 4e, really.
I for one have loved your reviews but even if that weren’t the case I’d seek to conduct myself online as I would off. You’re right about the loss of inhibitions and hurt people tend to hurt people – the various means of communication on the internet only make this worse.
On the whole 3pp side, I love reading and getting other peoples stuff (yes I am a DM) I recently bought the Terrain Toolbox straight off your review and have just been using your updated damage stats to update monsters for an up coming encounter in which I hope to use said, Terrain Toolbox ideas. I’m personally apologising for not standing up to the trolls, but one often feels that by giving them more attention you only prolong the attention such people get. I can see, now, that perhaps that standing by you, without citing them might be the better way to go forward.
Anyway Michael, thanks for sticking around – in whatever capacity that might be. I personally find your reviews enlightening and helpful – keep it up.
Ab
I sympathize about the GSL issues. Creating material for pub lic use in 4e is a significant challenge due to the design of the game, among many other factors.
While I don’t condone trolling, or flaming, I realize it is part of our ecosystem. I believe the best way to fight it is to carry on, ignoring those who do it, and focusing on hearing what constructive and creative posters have to say, and responding.
If blogging isn’t providing the return you expect, take a break and be open to what calls to you. Take a moment to comment on a blog you read, even if it is only to say “read it, thanks.” Becoming more than a page hit could inspire a good blogger to continue posting.
Neuroglyph,
You’re looking at a combination of several things here as to why us gamers are probably the rudest jerks around:
1. Yes, there is a sense of entitlement. Many of us imagine that our opinions, the state of the industry, and game design is the most important opinion out there and that I our wisdom should be taken as fact.
2. Being anonymous allows us to act with impunity. If I said horrible things about you, your family, your children to your face, chances are, you and I are going to be exchanging blows. However, if I say that to you over the Internet, what are the odds that you live in even in the same city that I do, let alone have the resources to figure out who I am, track me down, and kick the crap out of me?
3. Fandom takes it to the 11th degree. Being a devoted gamer invites passion. Just like being devoted to politics, or a academic scientist, or a host of other types of professions and hobbies in which one thinks, eats, sleeps, and breathes it. Being part of these circles in my professional life, I see this behavior here too. RPGs are not alone in this.
4. Our hobby attracts really weird people. How many times have you gone to a con to game with someone that you have to wonder what cave they crawled out of? Or at the game store? Odds are, these people are making themselves known on the forums. It’s about the only power and control they will ever have come close to having given that they social losers in every other part of society, particularly if they are really repressed or derided in other parts of society. Taking you down, Mr. Game Designer, for any kind of excuse, is their only shot at “winning”.
Best of luck to you and hope your skin gets thicker.
I know this kind of thing was a big reason Sersa Victory was down on his own creation of FourthCore for awhile. Having not published anything significant enough to draw the ire of the trolls (Hmm… sounds like an adventure title) I can’t say I have experience with what you’re talking about, but I certainly empathize. Skyland games is going to soldier on and try and rise above. Maybe we should start some positivity movement? 4e TrollFire? Just throwing it out there.
Michael, good essay. I will miss Quinn and Riven too.
I can’t say I’m surprised. I’ll keep publishing 4E material on the Kobold Quarterly site (for free) and in adventures and supplements from Open Design (not free, but not really profitable either).
The difference between various gaming fandoms is very clear to me from the publishing standpoint. The 4E D&D audience is largely unreceptive to 3PP content, even when written by former Wizards of the Coast staffers (such as Logan Bonner or, well, me). It does mean that the 4E game environment is much more constrained, and yes, talent does get chased away. I think that was perhaps the point of the GSL as it stands.
I understand how toxic the negativity can be. I work in a game store and the bickering between gamers can often be intolerable. It is frustrating to have to listen to so many people complaining all the time. People like to focus on the negative rather than the positive. I reached a really low point last fall and almost stopped gaming entirely.
I was able to get past much of the bad stuff and now I am really into my games and having fun with all the games I play, not just 4e. In the end, I just needed to put the bad stuff aside and focus on what I enjoyed doing.
As for the internet, I agree that the trolls seem to have overrun some places, although some corners of the internet are still safe. I am trying to make it a point to post more comments when I find things that I like on the web. The situation with At-Will really drove home how much I take some of the community content producers for granted.
With that in mind, I would just like to say that even when I do not always agree with your reviews, I always find them to be reasonable and well thought out. I hope you continue to provide your insights and perspectives on future gaming products.
I’m new here, and I promise not to troll.
I’m now in the position of hoping Quinn, et all, keep the site up as an archive. I only found At-Will about a year ago, and I’ve been poking around looking at stuff, and I haven’t had time to go through it all. The gang there was quite prolific, and I really liked a lot of their stuff.
It’s sad that the Internet brings out the worst in people. I see it all the time, in every subject I’m interested in. As others have said, the passion people now put into the Internet and the subjects they are interested push them to some pretty ugly behavior. It’s a systemic issue, and there is no way around it, in my opinion.
I can understand the At-Will crews decisions, and really wish they were able to make a different decision, but I appreciate their decision and wish them luck in their future endeavors.
As there are little if any monetary returns, publishing 4E stuff is largely a labor of love. When you no longer feel the love…you move on.
It’s funny how one message can keep you going when your spirit has been net flogged. I got an email question the other day from someone that bought one of our 4E digital products. He had a question about the intent of something written and noted that as the class looked interesting he wanted to try it. It was somewhat trivial matter eaily “house ruled” but this guy went the extra mile to figure our our intent because he was interested in the design behind the text.
Overall we’re not planning on much 4E GSL anymore, but that one email made me decide to finish the third of a line of 3 adventures we published that is available in stores (I figure even if only 10 groups in the nation played A1 and A2, then by darned they will get A3 to finish things up) and to update a few other things we mostly finished but never bothered to put on Drive Thru RPG.
Will these products do anything for our bottom line? No. But I figure making a few appreciative people happy is better than storming away because of messages telling us we suck and the only giid 4E stuff is from WoTC.
Are we discussing looking into Pathfinder publications? You betcha. Will I ever finish my retro 1950s in space sci-fi game….uh, I hope so……
So I say don’t let the trolls get you down. If it was easy to create good gaming material, they’d be doing it rather than complaining about other people’s work. But if you’re a small business or solo operator making a business decision to abandon the GSL…then I don’t blame you one bit. We’re right there with you.
And no, I don’t expect any type of third party publishing to rise again in support of whatever they call 5th edition D&D. I’d be surprised if they offer a GSL at all.
Dave Wainio
Three Sages Games
So, I’ve been mostly quiet, but I thought this was a particularly well-stated post and I want to say:
1) thanks for the kind words!
2) It’s a real shame that in many communities the balance of participating griefers to silent but approving folks is way out of skew. It got to the point that I dreaded putting out posts because good posts that I would find out much later people enjoyed got no comments and more controversial posts got filled up quickly with rude people. It just gets irritating. When I released the Worldbreaker book, sales were so dissapointing that I just pretty much gave up. This was something people said that they liked, and no one would buy it! (It’s a $2 PDF). That’s when I knew that not only was the time I spent not worth it, but that ….
3) playing in someone else’s sandbox mostly sucks. I mean, we can definitely bring up PFRPG in this as an example of not sucking, and juxtapose them with WotC’s 4e take. I just felt that no matter what I did, I could never “break in”…and I’ve been published in a bunch of places. If I’m feeling on the outside after all that, I might as well…
4) do my own thing. That’s what I’m doing now. I’ll look to do some freelance work here and there for other systems, but right now I figure that if I’m not going to make money or have a profound amount of interactions, I might as well do things that move me personally, and hopefully others as well. Working on my own RPG currently and writing posts on G+ regarding game design near-daily. It’s pretty damn fun!
Anyway, just wanted to share a bit. Thanks for a great post! You and I should talk sometime in the near future.
-Quinn
@catastrophe – I’m sorry but I have to disagree. While I’ll admit that the fan base has been put down by other parts of the D&D community, to see blogger fansites and 3PP game designers get internet flamed by the very people they want to serve seems a little insane – talk about biting the hand – but honestly, I know it’s not all the 4E fans, and stated so in my blog. But sadly that vocal minority of trolls do seem to get around.
@anarkeith/Thorynn/Wolfgang/Dave – yea, it seems we all have reached the same place in realizing that the GSL is not, and will never be, anything like OGL, and that the 4E fans simply aren’t interested in 3PP products overall. I hate to disparage WotC, but I think Wolfgang was right, and the current 3PP environment for 4E is exactly what they wanted. And that’s sad, because they are hemorrhaging talent to other game systems, and they won’t ever get it back when 5E comes a-callin’.
@Quinn – It’s good to hear you sound so positive about your decision, which I know must have been hard, but clearly it was the right one for you. For my own part, I still plan to do 4E blogs, review all kinds of gaming products, and still cover gaming events like PAX East, Origins, and GenCon – I like 4E, and will continue to play it as my choice for a heroic fantasy game.
And also like you, I realize that I’ll only really be happy when I am at the helm of my own ship, and not swabbing the deck under another captain’s command. To that end, I’ve already begun working on my own game system and a first setting to go with it, and it’s been a blast doing pure design like that. Of course, I’d love to do freelance work too for other systems, so yea, we definitely need to talk soon!
[...] Games lamented the loss of talent in the 4e community, as well as the difficulty of 3rd party publishing for 4th edition. This [...]
The flaming has come from OSR old man-types and vindictive 3.x fans who can’t come to terms with the pace of change. I have found the 4e community itself to be resilient and robust in its debate.
4E definitely changed the game beyond just a rule set, with a heavy reliance on DDI, and digital tools. Add to that all the mixed singles WOTC has sent out in regards to 4E when they started with 4E core and moved to Essentials, and even the fans are left scratching their heads. It was about the same time when I participated in the Lost City open design that I noticed the momentum of 4E start to falter, but WOTC tends to be its own worse enemy.
But as a D&D player for many years, I never bought heavily into third party products, unless it was a new setting/world. I don’t want re-hashes of existing worlds, but would prefer something completely different and new like Eberron was back in the day. I did take a look at Golarian and similar worlds, but they cling to hard to real life countries and mythologies as a backdrop.
Probably the best thing WOTC could do is open a store front on the Internet so they can show their “wares”, including better third party support. As I do not think the license is a hinderance, but how they treat third parties.