Comments on: The Next D&D Homebrew – Rituals Revisited: Alchemists, Enchanters, Ritualists, & Practitioners http://www.neuroglyphgames.com/the-next-dnd-homebrew-rituals-revisited A D&D 4e Blog Dedicated to Dungeonmasters & Players Mon, 07 Jul 2014 09:54:57 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Jeremy Mac Donald http://www.neuroglyphgames.com/the-next-dnd-homebrew-rituals-revisited/comment-page-1#comment-51272 Jeremy Mac Donald Sat, 26 May 2012 20:24:27 +0000 http://www.neuroglyphgames.com/?p=6996#comment-51272 I've come up against the issues your describing myself - though with a slightly different emphasis. Specifically I've not paid a great deal of attention to Rituals but have dealt with consumables a fair bit. My experience has been that the problem with a great many of the consumables is not that they cost to much but that they are too weak. I once took every drop of wealth by level for a 6th level party, i.e. all the magic items and all the gold, and used that sum to purchase consumables. During the course of the adventure I gave my players just stacks and stacks of these consumables. Pretty much two of almost every consumable from 1st through 10th level in the game (as of about ta year and a half ago). There is obviously no cost to purchase as they own them now. The surprising thing is despite my players often going over them comparatively few where ever used. Pretty much all the ones that gave them healing and the bolts that let them teleport beside their target on a hit (they thought those where amazing and talked about buying more). The problem is that most of the consumables grant so little that its not worth wasting actions to utilize them. The ones like Alchemist's Frost are hampered by a chance to hit that is just too low and then you got pretty marginal damage. Sure something like an Elixer of Flesh Returned is going to be kept around in case a party member gets petrified but a lot of them are just dead weight baggage even if they are free. Ultimately I think your solutions does something to address rituals but won't really help much with alchemical components. I’ve come up against the issues your describing myself – though with a slightly different emphasis. Specifically I’ve not paid a great deal of attention to Rituals but have dealt with consumables a fair bit.

My experience has been that the problem with a great many of the consumables is not that they cost to much but that they are too weak.

I once took every drop of wealth by level for a 6th level party, i.e. all the magic items and all the gold, and used that sum to purchase consumables. During the course of the adventure I gave my players just stacks and stacks of these consumables. Pretty much two of almost every consumable from 1st through 10th level in the game (as of about ta year and a half ago). There is obviously no cost to purchase as they own them now.

The surprising thing is despite my players often going over them comparatively few where ever used. Pretty much all the ones that gave them healing and the bolts that let them teleport beside their target on a hit (they thought those where amazing and talked about buying more). The problem is that most of the consumables grant so little that its not worth wasting actions to utilize them. The ones like Alchemist’s Frost are hampered by a chance to hit that is just too low and then you got pretty marginal damage.

Sure something like an Elixer of Flesh Returned is going to be kept around in case a party member gets petrified but a lot of them are just dead weight baggage even if they are free.

Ultimately I think your solutions does something to address rituals but won’t really help much with alchemical components.

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By: Train Wreck « The Middle-Aged DM http://www.neuroglyphgames.com/the-next-dnd-homebrew-rituals-revisited/comment-page-1#comment-51078 Train Wreck « The Middle-Aged DM Sat, 26 May 2012 02:37:13 +0000 http://www.neuroglyphgames.com/?p=6996#comment-51078 [...] on the redonk twink factor. I am implementing a House Rule on rituals designed most excellently by Mr. Neuroglyph in order to encourage their use and give a little old school [...] [...] on the redonk twink factor. I am implementing a House Rule on rituals designed most excellently by Mr. Neuroglyph in order to encourage their use and give a little old school [...]

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By: Editor-in-Chief http://www.neuroglyphgames.com/the-next-dnd-homebrew-rituals-revisited/comment-page-1#comment-44749 Editor-in-Chief Tue, 17 Apr 2012 10:20:34 +0000 http://www.neuroglyphgames.com/?p=6996#comment-44749 @TwoFang - Agreed, and certainly a DM could extend the Ritualist benefits to some of the Essentials classes if they are variants of a class that gets Ritual Casting as a fewature - for instance, all the Wizard variants like the Bladesinger, Mage, Sha'ir, and Witch. Regretfully, I haven't had much luck with the Essentials classes in my campaigns, as my players enjoy the complexity and increased number of options in combat the the Core 4E Classes. I've had four Essentials characters in my two campaigns, and they get dropped and replaced by the player after about one adventure (or less!). @Dave W - Not a bad suggestion on using surges, but I think it is just easier to declare a cap of one usage of Enchant Magic Item per day, and multiple days to complete a single item enchantment. I don't want to do anything that might interfere with adventuring plans, but merely make enchanting a slower process than the "One-Hour Artifacts" we have now. I was somewhat inspired here by the <em>Master of the Five Magics</em>, where enchantment is governed by the Maxim of Persistence, and in the sequel book the Maxim of Perseverance. Both concepts require that enchantment takes time and precision, and performance over and over, even if some parts of the ritual steps are actually quite boring. But so long as all the steps are done perfectly, or repetitively enough, a mundane item becomes magical. @TwoFang – Agreed, and certainly a DM could extend the Ritualist benefits to some of the Essentials classes if they are variants of a class that gets Ritual Casting as a fewature – for instance, all the Wizard variants like the Bladesinger, Mage, Sha’ir, and Witch. Regretfully, I haven’t had much luck with the Essentials classes in my campaigns, as my players enjoy the complexity and increased number of options in combat the the Core 4E Classes. I’ve had four Essentials characters in my two campaigns, and they get dropped and replaced by the player after about one adventure (or less!).

@Dave W – Not a bad suggestion on using surges, but I think it is just easier to declare a cap of one usage of Enchant Magic Item per day, and multiple days to complete a single item enchantment. I don’t want to do anything that might interfere with adventuring plans, but merely make enchanting a slower process than the “One-Hour Artifacts” we have now.

I was somewhat inspired here by the Master of the Five Magics, where enchantment is governed by the Maxim of Persistence, and in the sequel book the Maxim of Perseverance. Both concepts require that enchantment takes time and precision, and performance over and over, even if some parts of the ritual steps are actually quite boring. But so long as all the steps are done perfectly, or repetitively enough, a mundane item becomes magical.

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By: TwoFang http://www.neuroglyphgames.com/the-next-dnd-homebrew-rituals-revisited/comment-page-1#comment-44731 TwoFang Tue, 17 Apr 2012 06:55:43 +0000 http://www.neuroglyphgames.com/?p=6996#comment-44731 It may be worth keeping in mind that none of the Essentials builds get Ritual Caster as a bonus feat; I suspect this was a decision based on the desire for simplicity rather than a play balance issue. Combining that lack with the inherent bonuses your system gives Ritualists over Practitioners (after the Practitioners have spent a precious feat to gain rituals, no less) will serve to make Essentials builds less desirable in your campaigns. It may be worth keeping in mind that none of the Essentials builds get Ritual Caster as a bonus feat; I suspect this was a decision based on the desire for simplicity rather than a play balance issue. Combining that lack with the inherent bonuses your system gives Ritualists over Practitioners (after the Practitioners have spent a precious feat to gain rituals, no less) will serve to make Essentials builds less desirable in your campaigns.

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By: Dave Wainio http://www.neuroglyphgames.com/the-next-dnd-homebrew-rituals-revisited/comment-page-1#comment-44704 Dave Wainio Tue, 17 Apr 2012 03:38:08 +0000 http://www.neuroglyphgames.com/?p=6996#comment-44704 Another option to keep player created magic items in check is to require expending healing surges that don't come back for a week or so. More surges for higher levels. Depending on how tight the time constraints are in the campaign, players might not want to be heading out into thw wild down surges so only make items when you allow longer time breaks between adventures ... allowing the DM sorta control over how often they stop tp make an item. Another option to keep player created magic items in check is to require expending healing surges that don’t come back for a week or so. More surges for higher levels. Depending on how tight the time constraints are in the campaign, players might not want to be heading out into thw wild down surges so only make items when you allow longer time breaks between adventures … allowing the DM sorta control over how often they stop tp make an item.

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